Good points, all around. Hype, in general, distracts and detracts from good films.
I have to say though, your fixation on an explanation of the everything bagel in EEAAO misses the forest for the trees. Do you also watch Dr. Stranglove and get hung up on how the Doomsday device works? Or, why is the ultimate answer to life "42"? What actually is the Holy Grail? Why are the Knights who say Ni obsessed with shrubberies? All irrelevant to the story. Don't get me started on the actual Maltese Falcon statuette...
That's a reasonable point. I think if it was only that, then I'd let it slide, but there is so much exposition in the film that it can't help but draw attention to itself. There are other questions that I could have asked, like: why does a paper cut allow someone to jump universes? Why does it really matter if Jobu Tupaki kills Evelyn in another universe, or even every universe? How and why does she have minions? Why is the useless version of Evelyn in "our" universe best suited to fighting Jobu Tupaki?
I guess I picked the bagel because a lot of people I spoke to seemed to think it was a clever device (it's also a very, very American device - an "everything bagel" isn't something that really exists here in the UK as a cultural reference point). But I remember watching the film and that being the point where I first realised I was gettinf a bit lost...
Those questions are frankly irrelevant because the film isn't about any of those things. It's about the experience of an immigrant couple and their daughter. The movie captures that without any need for some logical explanation of all the wacky fun stuff. Any exposition is just more illusory fun, or to trick the audience into thinking they know what's going on, when really it's all meant to couch a hefty dose of Feeling.
It’s that if a bagel had literally everything on it, it would be a super massive blackhole - a literal embodiment of the angst and nihilism that devours everything, including relationships with loved ones. That is what joy is feeling and her mother is trying to pull her back from.
Yeah I don't remember feeling confused by the bagel (I'm not American either), I thought it was explained that it was quite literally everything, the weight of which would make a black hole.
The world of physics tends to concern itself with numbers that are extremely large (light-years, pansecs) or extremely small (Planck lengths, nanometres). "42", by contrast, is a very ordinary, average number. That's the joke.
Barbie’s fear of death was resolved by her talk with the founder of Barbie.
That’s how it works in every existential film. There is always a moment when the writer/director basically tells the audience everything is going to be okay with third-rate existential philosophy and self-help-isms. But the central issue is never actually resolved.
Another example would be “Everything, All at Once, All the Time” and their other movie “Swiss Army Zombie”
But maybe the audience wants to be told that everything will be okay? The real world is bleak. It’s okay for art to sometimes hold our hand and it not be a bad thing.
If you don’t like an authors opinion fine but no need to be rude. He gave you a heads up right in the headline about what he was going to say. You clearly should have just skipped the article.
EEAAO: annoying, frenetic, saccharine. Like it’s slapping you over the head with a rubber chicken and beseeching: “don’t you FEEL THIS?? DON’T YOU FEEL ALL THESE FEELINGS!?” The only thing I felt was contempt.
I don’t know if I’ve ever liked a “great” movie less. I guess it confirmed for me that I am completely out of step with a good portion of contemporary audiences.
I will never subscribe to a person who thinks Everything Everywhere All At Once is overrated. It is a cinematic masterpiece rivaled only by Groundhog Day. It is the most profound movie ever made.
If you don’t like an authors opinion fine but no need to be rude. He gave you a heads up right in the headline about what he was going to say. You clearly should have just skipped the article.
The Everything Bagel represents the nihilism on the other side of the freedom to choose anything. It is the cultural condition that many millennials, but more so Gen Z, find themselves in with social media and the internet. Every possible luxurious lifestyle and every horrifying tragedy, everything right there at your fingertips until it becomes so overwhelming that the only thing left to do is to eat to soothe the pain. Joy's weight is mentioned several times because that's exactly what she's done. She's depressed and lost because she can't bear the weight of everything, and so over-eats to soothe herself. The point of the battle at the end was to show that even when nothing matters and we're overwhelmed by the world, we can still be kind and spend our time with people we love. Two really good books to explain more about why exactly people escape from freedom in this way is Erich Fromm's Escape from Freedom and Robert Kegan's In Over Our Heads.
I feel uncomfortable self-plugging, but I released a recent article that is relevant to this if you're interested. I talk about how Epithymia (Greek for craving, desire, lust) is a sort of new "deity" that operates within a culture of nihilistic hedonism. When nothing else matters all we have left to aim ourselves toward is stimulation, and then we have algorithms that select for exactly that because that is what keeps our attention the longest. I connect that with the rise of Red Pill (not a fan just fyi) and issues in dating that men face. You can find it here - https://metamasculine.substack.com/p/the-rise-of-epithymian-idolatry
Generally agree, but you lost me at #5. Maybe it wasn't quite as good as Synecdoche, New York but ITOET hit me like a ton of bricks the first time I watched it, on a very intuitive level-- much the same as I feel watching the best David Lynch movies. I also don't think it's quite fair to characterize it as (pop) existentialism in the vein of Everything Everywhere-- it grapples much more with the way we construct selves; to me it felt reminiscent of Eastern philosophy in its outlook. But to each their own. It's probably one of those films that will either resonate or won't, depending on what you bring to it, but if you like more abstract cinema I'd definitely reccomend giving it a try!
I couldn’t stand Poor Things. It was one of the most unwatchable films I ever sat all the way through (and I doubt I would have, if I hadn’t gone with friends who seemed determined to sit through it). Not to mention that it seemed to convey a message that what a child-woman really wants is to be sexually assaulted by men.
Very late reply to say I turned this film off at the "furious jumping" section because no matter how many people try to argue otherwise (including Mark Kermode who I usually respect), this person having sex in these scenes is a CHILD. How can I be sure? Because an adult doesn't call sex "furious jumping."
Still reading, but jumped into the comments to say i wholeheartedly (bagel-heartedly?) agree with you about Everything, Constantly, All Over The Place. I liked it, but my own pleasant memories of it were buried under every reviewer pillaging the dictionary to out-gush every other reviewer, and everyone I spoke to had this whole 'movies are SO back' spiel simply because such a perfect one had entered our dimension. The effect of its overpraising was so total I don't even know how I felt about it anymore. I do remember thinking the bagel thing and the rocks with googly-eyes felt like a moment of cinematic meme-ificiation, which I think Barbie fell victim to, where the movie has been edited in a way to emphasise meme-worthy moments to help spread it around the internet as free marketing. Anyway I'll stop rambling and read the rest of your list now.
Hype is such a problem! It inevitably makes you expect something so much better than what you encounter, which makes it seem ultimately worse in comparison. The first time I experienced this was with Finding Nemo when I was in high school. Everyone seemed to be falling over themselves for it, so when I finally saw it, I was disappointed. It seemed like a generic feel good cartoon to me. It *didn't live up* to the hype. That and other examples since then have changed the way that I talk to people about things I like. Even when I love them, I try to couch them so I don't disappoint others.
I also can't help but tie this to extremes in opinions that (I perceive?) we see more today (e.g. the review valley you refer to). It's so much more challenging to find a middling opinion. The Google reviews for Wicked are overwhelmingly 10/10 (or whatever the scale is) and 0/10. 0/10 is ridiculous and I tend to attribute such ratings to trolls. But a perfect score also seems terribly wrong to me.
My girlfriend and I are giggling (after some wine), slightly dazzled at the fact you came across this – she read you in college, and we’re both fans; many thanks. To my shame I haven’t seen CODA – but perhaps I’ll update the list when I do. Unless, God forbid, I love it…
Upon closer inspection, one must wonder: is there any film today, given the omnipresence of internet marketing, that isn't inevitably overhyped? It’s like throwing a stone in a crowded cinema, hitting someone, and then proclaiming it an extraordinary coincidence.
Poor Things was just Barbie for people with LRB tote bags.
Thanks, I'm stealing this
An LRB subscription is the ultimate flex for the literary types. I subtly throw LRBs in the background of my photos on IG.
please forgive me for this but I want to get the joke - what is LRB?
oh jesus just realized this was posted in november
The London Review of Books, imagine the New Yorker but British (or indeed the NYRB but British)
Love it...absolutely nailed it.
HAHA
WOW. The best comment on both films ever made.
Good points, all around. Hype, in general, distracts and detracts from good films.
I have to say though, your fixation on an explanation of the everything bagel in EEAAO misses the forest for the trees. Do you also watch Dr. Stranglove and get hung up on how the Doomsday device works? Or, why is the ultimate answer to life "42"? What actually is the Holy Grail? Why are the Knights who say Ni obsessed with shrubberies? All irrelevant to the story. Don't get me started on the actual Maltese Falcon statuette...
That's a reasonable point. I think if it was only that, then I'd let it slide, but there is so much exposition in the film that it can't help but draw attention to itself. There are other questions that I could have asked, like: why does a paper cut allow someone to jump universes? Why does it really matter if Jobu Tupaki kills Evelyn in another universe, or even every universe? How and why does she have minions? Why is the useless version of Evelyn in "our" universe best suited to fighting Jobu Tupaki?
I guess I picked the bagel because a lot of people I spoke to seemed to think it was a clever device (it's also a very, very American device - an "everything bagel" isn't something that really exists here in the UK as a cultural reference point). But I remember watching the film and that being the point where I first realised I was gettinf a bit lost...
Those questions are frankly irrelevant because the film isn't about any of those things. It's about the experience of an immigrant couple and their daughter. The movie captures that without any need for some logical explanation of all the wacky fun stuff. Any exposition is just more illusory fun, or to trick the audience into thinking they know what's going on, when really it's all meant to couch a hefty dose of Feeling.
I do agree that it was too long though.
It’s that if a bagel had literally everything on it, it would be a super massive blackhole - a literal embodiment of the angst and nihilism that devours everything, including relationships with loved ones. That is what joy is feeling and her mother is trying to pull her back from.
Yeah I don't remember feeling confused by the bagel (I'm not American either), I thought it was explained that it was quite literally everything, the weight of which would make a black hole.
It's not really important what the everything bagel is, except that it's the opposite of the googly eyes.
>Or, why is the ultimate answer to life "42"?
The world of physics tends to concern itself with numbers that are extremely large (light-years, pansecs) or extremely small (Planck lengths, nanometres). "42", by contrast, is a very ordinary, average number. That's the joke.
Barbie’s fear of death was resolved by her talk with the founder of Barbie.
That’s how it works in every existential film. There is always a moment when the writer/director basically tells the audience everything is going to be okay with third-rate existential philosophy and self-help-isms. But the central issue is never actually resolved.
Another example would be “Everything, All at Once, All the Time” and their other movie “Swiss Army Zombie”
Of course, thanks for reminding me. I knew there was a reason for the Rhea Perlman role....
But maybe the audience wants to be told that everything will be okay? The real world is bleak. It’s okay for art to sometimes hold our hand and it not be a bad thing.
I thought it was called "Swiss Army Man".
Oh cool. A guy writing a smug little column about hiw he's oh so smarter than the rest of us plebs who enjoyed these movies.
That's what we need. More smug assholes being snotty.
https://open.substack.com/pub/marlowe1/p/the-witching-snakes-pt-4?r=sllf3&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
I am! I am much smarter than you!
If you don’t like an authors opinion fine but no need to be rude. He gave you a heads up right in the headline about what he was going to say. You clearly should have just skipped the article.
EEAAO: annoying, frenetic, saccharine. Like it’s slapping you over the head with a rubber chicken and beseeching: “don’t you FEEL THIS?? DON’T YOU FEEL ALL THESE FEELINGS!?” The only thing I felt was contempt.
I don’t know if I’ve ever liked a “great” movie less. I guess it confirmed for me that I am completely out of step with a good portion of contemporary audiences.
HATED every second.
Hideous movie...celluloid adderall
I will never subscribe to a person who thinks Everything Everywhere All At Once is overrated. It is a cinematic masterpiece rivaled only by Groundhog Day. It is the most profound movie ever made.
Also, even at sixty, Michelle Yeoh is hot.
>Also, even at sixty, Michelle Yeoh is hot.
Agreed.
If you don’t like an authors opinion fine but no need to be rude. He gave you a heads up right in the headline about what he was going to say. You clearly should have just skipped the article.
do you copy and paste this on every comment that you dislike ?
Nope, just tired I guess :)
Sorry Pete this saved to the wrong spot. Not meant for you.
This won you a subscriber 🤣. Thank you for saying what needed to be said about EEAAO.
Cheers!
The Everything Bagel represents the nihilism on the other side of the freedom to choose anything. It is the cultural condition that many millennials, but more so Gen Z, find themselves in with social media and the internet. Every possible luxurious lifestyle and every horrifying tragedy, everything right there at your fingertips until it becomes so overwhelming that the only thing left to do is to eat to soothe the pain. Joy's weight is mentioned several times because that's exactly what she's done. She's depressed and lost because she can't bear the weight of everything, and so over-eats to soothe herself. The point of the battle at the end was to show that even when nothing matters and we're overwhelmed by the world, we can still be kind and spend our time with people we love. Two really good books to explain more about why exactly people escape from freedom in this way is Erich Fromm's Escape from Freedom and Robert Kegan's In Over Our Heads.
This is the best explanation of this that I've seen so far by a long way, cheers
I feel uncomfortable self-plugging, but I released a recent article that is relevant to this if you're interested. I talk about how Epithymia (Greek for craving, desire, lust) is a sort of new "deity" that operates within a culture of nihilistic hedonism. When nothing else matters all we have left to aim ourselves toward is stimulation, and then we have algorithms that select for exactly that because that is what keeps our attention the longest. I connect that with the rise of Red Pill (not a fan just fyi) and issues in dating that men face. You can find it here - https://metamasculine.substack.com/p/the-rise-of-epithymian-idolatry
Not at all, self-plug away! I'll give it a read
I thought I’d be offended bcz some of these r movies I loved but honestly the criticism was valid and hilarious so great work.
Ps: adding alternatives you think are better made the read all the more worthwhile 💋
Thank you!
Generally agree, but you lost me at #5. Maybe it wasn't quite as good as Synecdoche, New York but ITOET hit me like a ton of bricks the first time I watched it, on a very intuitive level-- much the same as I feel watching the best David Lynch movies. I also don't think it's quite fair to characterize it as (pop) existentialism in the vein of Everything Everywhere-- it grapples much more with the way we construct selves; to me it felt reminiscent of Eastern philosophy in its outlook. But to each their own. It's probably one of those films that will either resonate or won't, depending on what you bring to it, but if you like more abstract cinema I'd definitely reccomend giving it a try!
I couldn’t stand Poor Things. It was one of the most unwatchable films I ever sat all the way through (and I doubt I would have, if I hadn’t gone with friends who seemed determined to sit through it). Not to mention that it seemed to convey a message that what a child-woman really wants is to be sexually assaulted by men.
Very late reply to say I turned this film off at the "furious jumping" section because no matter how many people try to argue otherwise (including Mark Kermode who I usually respect), this person having sex in these scenes is a CHILD. How can I be sure? Because an adult doesn't call sex "furious jumping."
Still reading, but jumped into the comments to say i wholeheartedly (bagel-heartedly?) agree with you about Everything, Constantly, All Over The Place. I liked it, but my own pleasant memories of it were buried under every reviewer pillaging the dictionary to out-gush every other reviewer, and everyone I spoke to had this whole 'movies are SO back' spiel simply because such a perfect one had entered our dimension. The effect of its overpraising was so total I don't even know how I felt about it anymore. I do remember thinking the bagel thing and the rocks with googly-eyes felt like a moment of cinematic meme-ificiation, which I think Barbie fell victim to, where the movie has been edited in a way to emphasise meme-worthy moments to help spread it around the internet as free marketing. Anyway I'll stop rambling and read the rest of your list now.
Totally agree - the Raccacoonie joke was also laden down with meme aspirations, which I think might be why they *kept* coming back to it.
Hype is such a problem! It inevitably makes you expect something so much better than what you encounter, which makes it seem ultimately worse in comparison. The first time I experienced this was with Finding Nemo when I was in high school. Everyone seemed to be falling over themselves for it, so when I finally saw it, I was disappointed. It seemed like a generic feel good cartoon to me. It *didn't live up* to the hype. That and other examples since then have changed the way that I talk to people about things I like. Even when I love them, I try to couch them so I don't disappoint others.
I also can't help but tie this to extremes in opinions that (I perceive?) we see more today (e.g. the review valley you refer to). It's so much more challenging to find a middling opinion. The Google reviews for Wicked are overwhelmingly 10/10 (or whatever the scale is) and 0/10. 0/10 is ridiculous and I tend to attribute such ratings to trolls. But a perfect score also seems terribly wrong to me.
…hilarious start to finish thank you…honorable mentions for me would be Past Lives (zzz)…the fabelmans (grrf)…and anything not called Tar…
Was going to write the exact same comment about Past Lives 🙏🏻
Hard disagree on Poor Things being overrated BUT “Children are famously not very interesting” made me stop and think and laugh
My only quarrel with this list is that CODA was not included.
My girlfriend and I are giggling (after some wine), slightly dazzled at the fact you came across this – she read you in college, and we’re both fans; many thanks. To my shame I haven’t seen CODA – but perhaps I’ll update the list when I do. Unless, God forbid, I love it…
Thank you, Tom.
Upon closer inspection, one must wonder: is there any film today, given the omnipresence of internet marketing, that isn't inevitably overhyped? It’s like throwing a stone in a crowded cinema, hitting someone, and then proclaiming it an extraordinary coincidence.